Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

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Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by A Lotta Moms on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:52 am

I know I'm stating the obvious here and most people have suspected this for years, but this thread is officially dedicated to those moments in the series that suggest, either intentionally or unintentionally, that everybody's favorite short-haired Jewmonkey plays for the other team.

I'll start with this lovely piece of double entendre I culled from the delightful You've Got to be Kidding game at the official website:



For those who don't know, "don't ask, don't tell" was the infamous military policy that allowed LGBT people to serve so long as they didn't reveal their sexuality. Now Francine's claiming the policy as her own.  This might be the most blatant case of the show/site trying to tell us something without being able to come right out and say it.


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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by Rummy on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:57 am

With a haircut like that, you can totally tell she's a lesbian.
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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by A Lotta Moms on Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:10 am



And a beard too, no less.

Speaking of which, here are some other little holes in the closet:

1. Her father refers to her by the common male nickname, "Franky."
2. She appears in a man's role several times: as Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Edison, and even as a bearded Greek God in D.W.s Odyssey tale.
3. She often wears men's suits and costumes at formal events ("Elwood City Turns 100" for instance), and most of the time when she shows up in imaginary scenarios she's dressed in a man's three piece suit.
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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by A Lotta Moms on Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:14 am

And of course, who can forget that warm Spring day when she met the love of her life in Arthur and the True Francine?  
Literally, it was a match made in Heaven.

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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by Snowth Poogle on Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:37 pm

A Lotta Moms wrote:And of course, who can forget that warm Spring day when she met the love of her life in Arthur and the True Francine?  
Literally, it was a match made in Heaven.

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES! I've long suspected that Francine will turn out to be a lesbian (I'm sure being only eight-years-old, she doesn't realize it yet, or even think about it), and this very moment seals the deal for me.

And you guys are right about the suits and such - it's actually a very common stereotype that the only women who wear neckties are lesbians (though I think straight women have been trying to crush that stereotype in more recent years).

Similarly, as far as her short hair goes, short hair seems to be a big trend with a lot of women in general right now, so I don't know if that can be justified as a possible clue to Francine's orientation.

The way I see it playing out... once the kids are in high school and such, they become teenagers, they start experiencing those changes and stuff, the boys will start noticing the girls (everybody seems to think Buster especially will turn into a stoned pervert as a teen), and the girls will start to notice the boys... Francine, on the other hand, she'll probably find herself confused as why she can't help but stare at other girls' assets, and maybe even feel a little embarrassed about it. I can totally see a scenario in which Francine may confide in Muffy (since she's her best friend) that she doesn't understand why she doesn't seem interesting in boys, and at the same time, admit that she finds the way girls look (curves and all) to be really attractive. Muffy, being Muffy, will probably think something's wrong with Francine, that she must be sick in the head or something, and needs to see a psychiatrist; so saying, Francine visits Dr. Sidney Freedman, who tells her to take his advice, pull down her pants, and slide on the ice, which he himself can no longer do because of a transvestite hermaphrodite breaking his penis. Francine will probably also be in really deep denial about her possibly being a lesbian, if only because she probably doesn't want to believe it herself, but she'll always be second-guessing herself because she doesn't care for boys, and always checks out other girls.

Even though Muffy is Francine's best friend, I don't see her being very supportive about Francine's sexuality... it may even drive a wedge between them, I think Muffy will probably end up being homophobic, and want to avoid Francine at all costs, because she may think Francine might try to have her way with her.

If word got out among other kids, Buster may egg it on and keep pestering Francine into kissing another girl so he can see and take pictures (that is, assume he really is the pervert people think he'll become). I think out of all the group, Arthur will probably be the most supportive of Francine, as that's just the way he is. Brain may probably try and examine Francine to try and figure out what it is exactly that causes a gay person to be gay, even though it isn't a choice. Binky might think it's cool. As for the other girls, I don't think either Sue Ellen or Fern might be bothered by it too much... but like I said, Muffy will definitely be a homophobe.

Now, if you guys will excuse me, I'm going to go back and revisit some old memories of thoughts of Chipette incest between Brittany and Jeanette.  What a Face 

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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by Roabe on Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:58 pm

One thing we forget is that Francine was brought up in a religious household, moreso than the other characters. Who knows how her parents would react? In past episodes they've been portrayed as being open-minded, but they could very well be against the idea of Francine being out.

I think Francine's friends would be more or less supportive of her, but that's basing it on their 8-year-old selves. People tend to change as they get older, especially as they reach their teen years. Who knows what their views will be 8 years from now?

As for Muffy, she would probably view gayness as the "trendy" thing for a while. Maybe try to get into the business of selling rainbow flags and the like. Then due to her ADHD she'll get bored of that scheme and move on to something else. Beyond that, I don't think she would be against Francine's sexuality at all.

Besides, how do we know that dancing cherub fantasy wasn't dreamed up by her?
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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by A Lotta Moms on Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:52 am

I was pretty sure it would only be a matter of time before this thread would get revived.  Cool  

Regarding her ties and suits, it reminds me so much of K.D. Lang or Ellen DeGeneres when I see her dressed up like that.  Back when I was in the Army, I remember over half the females I worked and trained with were lesbians.  I got to be very good friends with some of them, and after you're around lesbians long enough, it becomes pretty easy to spot a blatant case like Francine...even when she's still young and not fully blossomed yet.  I hate to seem like I'm stereotyping, but that's just my personal experience.  Even when you compare her to other tomboys, sporty girls, pants-wearers, etc...there's just an intangible something about Franky that radiates gay.  Something in her voice and demeanor.       

It's so much fun to speculate just how this will play out over time.  I could picture her, even at age 8, sometimes feeling funny, deep sorts of emotions toward Muffy or the other girls, but not totally understanding what was going on and just shrugging it off.  Right at that pre-puberty, pre-tween stage, kids can often be a mixed bag when it comes to romantic feelings.  I honestly thought Arthur's crush on Sally had genuine hints of being real, and more than just liking her because they liked playing games together.  He vengeful fantasies and moping, depressed, verge-of-tears state was just too convincing.  I imagine when Muffy gets her first boyfriend, Francine will probably react the same way.  At first Francine will find some veil or excuse to get mad at her.  Something petty.  But her true feelings will come to the surface as they try to talk it over.  

How do I think Muffy will react?  It's hard to say.  I think good points have been raised on both sides of the fence.  Back in the 90s era when gay was much more unacceptable than it is today, I could see Muffy showing her nasty side and treating Francine like she has some loathsome disease, but at the same time feeling guilty over it.  She might eventually sort of make up with her, but it would be very superficial.  Things would just never be the same between them, and they'd drift apart as the years go by.  Eventually Francine might even come to believe it's for the best, because it would be just too painful to be close to Muffy but not be able to be loved back by her.  Today it's much more acceptable to be out of the closet, so I could also see Muffy treating it like vegetarianism, only to really offend Francine when it becomes clear Muffy's not the real deal.

Francine visits Dr. Sidney Freedman, who tells her to take his advice, pull down her pants, and slide on the ice, which he himself can no longer do because of a transvestite hermaphrodite breaking his penis.

I literally just knocked my head against the desk three times that was so damn funny.   clown 

The religiosity of her Jewish family is also an interesting question.  Being ethnically Jewish (but not religiously), I've gathered from being in close proximity to the Jewish community that the overall attitude towards homosexuality, while it's still literally forbidden in the Torah, is somewhat more accepting than it is in fundamentalist Christian or Muslim communities.  Her family might not give her that hard a time about it, as they do seem to be pretty relaxed on the whole.  Bubbie, on the other hand, being more old world and conservative, might launch into an Impossible Jewish Mother guilt trip/harrassment campaign against Oliver to do a bettah job as a fathah, Olivah!!!

Besides, how do we know that dancing cherub fantasy wasn't dreamed up by her?

That's a good possibility.  I personally like to think that it was their mutual lovechild.
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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by Snowth Poogle on Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:32 am

A Lotta Moms wrote:Back when I was in the Army, I remember over half the females I worked and trained with were lesbians.  I got to be very good friends with some of them, and after you're around lesbians long enough, it becomes pretty easy to spot a blatant case like Francine...even when she's still young and not fully blossomed yet.  I hate to seem like I'm stereotyping, but that's just my personal experience.
I wouldn't doubt that. At the same time, though, even when you're not around gay people like that on a regular basis, you can kind of pick up an inkling of whether a person is or not, and like you say, sometimes it's in voice or demeanor... like how it seems like you can almost always pick out a gay man by how his vernacular seems more like that of a teenaged school girl. Otherwise, I've seen some women just walking around on the street that pretty much match those same kind of stereotypes and innuendos that infamous banned "Buffalo Gals" episode of COW AND CHICKEN exploited (heavy set, buzz cuts, he-man attitude, etc.)

I will admit though, there have been occasions where I've suspected some people, and was proven wrong. I was so sure both Greg Proops and (The Artist Formerly Known As) Prince, mainly because whenever I'd watch WHOSE LINE IS IT ANYWAY?, Greg just gave off that vibe in his performances, and likewise, looking at Prince from the 80s (not really sure what he's doing these days), you don't see too many straight men walking around in high heels, outlandish and flamboyant outfits, and such.

Then, you've got some people who actually pretend to be gay, because they somehow think it gives them some kind of status or something... this turned out to be the case for Adam Ant, and Shane Dawson.
I literally just knocked my head against the desk three times that was so damn funny.   clown 
Yeah, I just knew you'd love it.

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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by Roabe on Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:29 am

I just thought of the cold opening from "Brain's Shocking Secret", so here's some more exhibits for the evidence pile...




Though I find it peculiar that Muffy's outfit is less feminine than Francine's here.
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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by A Lotta Moms on Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:14 pm

Wow, they're both pretty startling here.  Francine's hair is a little more smooth, but her outfit and posture is, as usual, pretty butch.  Muffy is even more striking in that retro 70s pimp getup.  But I guess that's just Muffy, finding a way to get rich off of exploiting others...no matter how low she has to go.  Gotta love Francine in that bottom shot, though.  Despite her characteristic butch (actually, more because of it), I do find her adorable...even when she's barfing all over the place.   monkey 

It brings to mind another curious conversation in All Thumbs that may have technically had a more innocent meaning, but was put together in a way that made it seem like it was leading up to something very different.  


Around 11:17, after Francine admits to Buster that she used to suck her thumb...

Francine: Promise you won' tell anyone!
Buster: Don't worry.  I know how to keep a secret.  
Francine (in a very uneasy and shaky voice): And I should probably tell you one more thing...

Then scene cuts out before we discover just what she was going to tell him, now that she knows he can keep a secret.  If you take the episode as a whole, I think the actual, face meaning was that she was going to tell Buster that she was evesdropping on him and Arthur earlier.  But given everything we already know about Francine, it certainly does seem like she's taken the opportunity to share a much darker,much more personal secret with him.

I have this moment pegged as another cruel teaser, a lot like that close-up shot of Maria in the lunch line.  We were all on the edges of our seats waiting for her to finally say something, but...ARGH!!!

P.S. Love the new avatar.  That was definitely one of Miss Muffeh's best hairstyles...not to mention one of her best firearms.  Cool
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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by Roabe on Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:08 pm

Cut from Francine about to tell her deep, dark secret to Buster, to Buster standing outside of Arthur's house.

Taken out of context, that scene tells you if there's one thing the kids in the Arthurverse aren't capable of, it's keeping secrets.

P.S. Love the new avatar.  That was definitely one of Miss Muffeh's best hairstyles...not to mention one of her best firearms.
Ha, thanks. I was playing around with GIMP doing a line tracing from a vidcap and randomly thought of M.I.A.'s song "Paper Planes," so I lazily drew in a gun. Here's the full-sized version without the brick wall background.
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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by BionicBunny on Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:39 pm

I think she's either bi or lesbian,because she occasionally shows interest in boys as well.

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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by Snowth Poogle on Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:20 pm

"Canon" among fans seems to indicate she and Arthur are an item... I can kind of see that, there's been at least two different occasions where Francine has teased Arthur in a psuedo-flirty manner, such as "Arthur Makes a Movie", where she keeps insisting they film the scene where James Hound saves the pretty girl from the villain, followed by them sharing a kiss... casting herself as said pretty girl that needs to be saved from the villain by James Hound. Then, there was "The Long, Dull Winter", where Francine pesters Arthur into confessing he's in love with someone being the reason why he's been feeling funny as of late.

Oh yeah, and there's also "Arthur and the Square Dance", though that's more of one of those standard, "He/she's not my boyfriend/girlfriend" episodes kids shows do since it's common for kids to tease boy and girls being friends with one another.

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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by BionicBunny on Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:26 pm

Exactly my point.And there's also "Arthur's Birthday",where she wants to play spin the bottle with Arthur,going as far as to get him a bottle for his birthday....

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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by Snowth Poogle on Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:36 pm

Heh. Perhaps Francine being les is more or less self-fanservice... but yeah, I suppose her being bi would be a little more logical.

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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by A Lotta Moms on Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:27 pm

Her early attraction to Arthur seemed to be pretty effectively quashed in Arthur's Square Dance.  She was angrily, violently opposed to the idea of being his girlfriend or having any feelings for him beyond platonic friendship, which was in pretty stark contrast to her flirtatiousness in Arthur's Valentine.  I think Valentine was really a carry-over of her role from the early book, before she developed into the more butchy LGBT character we've all come to know and love.
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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by Rummy on Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:33 pm

Bi as in.... bipolar? Bicycle? Binomial? So many meanings!
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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by A Lotta Moms on Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:32 pm

Bipedal Hominid
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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by Roabe on Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:47 pm

Bilingual.

Her voice actress is, at least.
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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by BionicBunny on Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:10 pm

New evidence:In "Arthur's Mystery Envelope",anybody remember the way Francine was "helping" Sue Ellen learn how to swing(in this case with a ruler)?

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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by Snowth Poogle on Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:11 pm

I think Sue Ellen will eventually turn into one those Even the Girl Wants Her girls.

After all... the ass was fat.

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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by A Lotta Moms on Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:13 pm

I'm still trying to track down that moment.

But I'm sure it was. Fat as a cat.
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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by Snowth Poogle on Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:07 pm

I dunno, I just kind of see Sue Ellen becoming one of those girls in high school... after all, she's very cultured from having traveled all over the world, and she knows how to keep losers and other offending parties at bay with her martial arts knowledge... and the ass was fat, and just imagine how the ass will be fat when she develops.

Girls will be crawling all over her.

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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by A Lotta Moms on Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:24 pm

...and crawling out of her some time about 9 months after she starts attracting her share of boys.   elephant
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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

Post by A Lotta Moms on Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:18 pm

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Re: Francine Frensky: Lesbian.

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